Global Trade, Tariffs, and the U.S. Housing Market with Nadia Evangelou

Aaron Masliansky (00:01)
Welcome to the Chicagoland Guide, and I'm your host, Aaron Masliansky. Today I have a special guest. I have Nadia Evangelou. Nadia works for the National Association of Realtors. She is a senior economist and director of real estate research at NAR. And I have a lot to talk about with her. We're going to talk about global trade, macroeconomic policy, how it's shaping the U.S. housing market nationally.

and why it matters here to us in the Chicagoland area. Because there's been quite a bit going on. I have a lot of questions about how all these tariffs and everything play out. I'm like, I'm going to go out and find the best expert in the world to talk about that with me. So Nadia, thank you so much for joining me today.

Nadia Evangelou (00:45)
Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure to be here. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. It's a timely topic, because trade and global economic dynamics are often seen as this big abstract forces, but they actually touch housing in a very real and practical ways, from construction costs to where investors decide to put their money and even down to what kind of homes.

someone can afford in their community. I will say all of it, it's like interconnected.

Aaron Masliansky (01:16)
it definitely is. that's why I want to be able to understand it because it can seem so abstract. But Nadia, before we start, tell us a little bit about how you got into this role, how you started working at the National Association of Realtors. What made you interested in being a housing economist?

Nadia Evangelou (01:31)
As I mentioned in the discussion that we had before, I'm very fortunate to be in this industry. I really love it. And it's very exciting to me to take a look to see how demographics, for example, how the economy, how changing policies, for example, can affect the housing market. And housing is the hot topic for everybody. For all these years, I have started working for an AR in 2014. And every day I enjoy it.

really enjoy to dig into these trends and see how housing can be affected by so many factors.

Aaron Masliansky (02:09)
Yeah, it really can. And we certainly over the past, especially over the past five years, with COVID and all these different types of things. Now we talk about trade policy. It's not your normal. Like when I speak to a client, they ask me, what's the housing market like? And I talk about the spring market and all these different things and I show them charts. And then I start to look at the data. I'm like, well, none of what I'm saying really makes sense because this past few years, like everything's just been blown up.

by different things that affect it globally. And it's really, really hard to predict. right now what we're looking at are this trade war and these tariffs. there are ripple effects that come with that. So you may talk about things with lumber prices or aluminum prices and things like that when you're looking at how housing construction costs come about. So what are you seeing now? mean, when I first reached out to you, was when the

first when the tariffs were coming out and I was thinking about how to structure this conversation. There's been so much that's happened with these flip flops every day. So what are you seeing? What's the actual on the ground effect on real estate?

Nadia Evangelou (03:16)
Absolutely. So I think it's better to start with what is happening right now. So we are seeing many changes happening. The US has imposed new tariffs on the range of goods and several trading partners are responding in kind. On the surface, that may seem like something that only affects exporters or importers.

actually there is a ripple effect that reaches all the way to the housing market and what we definitely know is that tariffs are inflationary. So when tariffs are imposed they raise the cost of imported goods whether it's raw materials, components or like finished products. So for example when tariffs are placed on key building materials like steel as you mentioned like aluminium or even some finished products used in homes

those costs get passed down the line. So builders have to absorb them and ultimately so do home buyers. So if you're building a new home and your costs go up because of more expensive imported materials that makes the home less affordable. And then of course, except from that part, the other piece of this is uncertainty. So even just the threat of...

of tariffs or the back and forth we have seen over the past days creates a lot of unpredictable... It's not so predictable to forecast the market and especially for developers. So real estate is a long game. People are making investment decisions that play out over years. So if there is volatility in these...

if there's volatility, this can make them more reluctant and cautious on new projects. And then there's another part, there's also the consumer side. So when people hear about tariffs and trade wars, it affects the perception of the economy. even if they don't feel the impact directly, they might decide to be in a wait and see phase. For example, there are so many discussions about the impact of new tariffs, like unemployment, inflation.

But what the numbers still show is that inflation has dropped to 2.4 percent like in March and employment continues to grow while jobless claims also are very low. So I will say that it's a little too soon to say exactly how the new tariffs will affect the housing market. Like this time, these things usually take time to work their way through the economy.

And the impact really depends on where trade is happening and which industries are hit like the hardest.

Aaron Masliansky (05:50)
Right. And then where you're located regionally and how those industries are impacted. Before we talk about that, because I know that there is a study that you did recently about states and the ones that rely on imports and exports and how that affects things. One of the things with inflation, typically what will happen is if there is inflation, then the Federal Reserve may raise interest rates. And I know politically that has been a hot button topic with President Trump and Federal Reserve

Chairman Jerome Powell, because the Federal Reserve doesn't want to lower interest rates right now because they're worried about inflation and Trump wants them to go down. And you see other national governments or national banks around the world lowering their interest rates. how do you think that, what do think that's going to do the interest rates? Because personally I've seen from the consumer side, interest rates dipped when the stock market went down quite a bit. When he announced the

tariffs and then they've gone back up. people could like the rates that are going to consumers just keeps fluctuating quite a bit.

Nadia Evangelou (06:56)
Yeah, I don't expect like right away to see like some change in the interest rates and eventually in the mortgage rates. However, by the end of the year, when it's more clear what is going to happen, I think it's a little like too early, I think now to assess. And I think by the end of the year, we may see like interest rates to to be lower. I expect them to be lower.

and mortgage rates to be closer to the 6.5%. Now, unfortunately, they're again at 7 % with all these changes, and what we have seen from mortgage securities as well. But what we expect is to have lower interest rates by the end of the year. But I don't expect it next month for this to happen.

Aaron Masliansky (07:46)
Right. But why would there be lower interest rates if, mean, I know it's a little bit too early to tell right now, but if a lot of tariffs do come into effect, especially with China, that would pretty severely impact our material pricing. And then if we have very limited immigration where that could have been people coming in that would provide labor for construction. mean, isn't there a chance that we maybe see interest rates that go higher over seven in order to be able to combat that?

potential inflation.

Nadia Evangelou (08:17)
What we see so far from the data is that inflation is still good. of course there are concerns and we need to wait a little bit until we see some effects. Because even though the tariffs can come next month, for many of them, he has paused as well. for 90%. But for some of them, they are already there. So it takes time for the consumers to feel it. And what we see from the data, consumer spending continues to grow.

Aaron Masliansky (08:20)
You right.

Right.

Nadia Evangelou (08:43)
Employment continues to grow, for example. we see inflation is very good. It's very close to the 2 % and that's the lowest since 2021. But of course there are some concerns. However, overall, we expect that some stability later in the year, this can help with the economy, of course, and not to be so much uncertainty out there.

Aaron Masliansky (09:11)
Right. It'll be helpful to know actually what's going on. But one of the things that you wrote about recently is which states rely on the most exports and imports and which states really rely on trade and how that affects housing prices. So what are some of the key findings from that report?

Nadia Evangelou (09:32)
Yeah, so what we see is that since it's too early to evaluate the real effect of the tariffs, the new tariffs to the housing market, I think it's a good idea to go and take a look and see what states rely on that. And what we see, for example, from the data, like Chicago is, let's talk a little bit more locally. So Chicago is a fascinating example. It's a city, it's an area that

both deeply connected to global economy and uniquely positioned in the US market. So it's a logistics powerhouse right at the heart of the country like rail and trade systems. So when we talk about trade, imports, exports, tariffs, Chicago is right in the middle, I will say of that story. So Illinois as a state is one of the most trade exposed economies. When we analyze the data,

we found that Illinois ranks pretty high in both exports and imports as a share of its economy. Specifically, Illinois is the number three state with the highest share of imports to the local GDP and number six with the largest share of exports to the local GDP. So specifically exports made up nearly 7%, 7.1 % of the state's GDP in 2024. And when we look at imports compared to the local GDP,

they are about like 19%. So in simple terms, it means that Illinois' economy is reliant with global supply chains, more so than other states. So what happens at ports, factories and global markets will likely have a larger impact in this state. What's driving that trade dependence like in Illinois or like which industries like products are most involved,

a few key industries really stand out. So first and foremost, this state is importing crude petroleum like telephones, computers and medical stuff like pharmaceutical stuff. So the top partners are Canada, China and Mexico. And then the leading from the export side is like the leading export industries are medical again.

pharmaceutical staff, machinery, and also have in mind that Illinois is a significant agricultural exporter of oilseeds and grains. So the top export partners are Canada again, and then Mexico, Australia, and China. So what does that mean for workers and families like in Illinois? Why should people who aren't in those industries care about trade?

So that's a crucial point. So even if you're not directly working in manufacturing or logistics, trade still has a ripple effect. these industries support hundreds of thousands of jobs, not just on the factory floor, but in supporting roles like accounting, IT, maintenance, transportation, and local services. And the income for those export industries helps support local businesses like schools and tax revenues.

international trade is disrupted by tariffs, supply chain shocks or global slowdowns, Illinois is one of the states to fill it, that they will fill it. what our analysis shows is that while trade brings real value in the local economy, states less reliant on exports and imports actually experience faster job growth and home appreciation. And from the labor from the job market like

perspective, we see that since 1994, which was when the NAFTA was enacted, employment grew nearly 39 % in states that are less dependent on international trade compared to just like 32 % in states with high trade reliance. In Illinois, labor market jobs increased about 12 % since 1994, so even like less.

A similar pattern emerges like in housing markets as well, like home prices have increased more rapidly in states that were less reliant on trade, like low trade, like reliant states experience and average home price rise about like 290 percent. So, yeah, three times while high trade reliant states lag behind with an average of 237. So,

It doesn't seem very big the difference, but again, when we take a look at the states at more local level, like for example, Illinois, since 1994, home prices have increased like 160%. So we see that while trade brings more growth, these more heavily reliant like states are more volatile, I would say to any changes with less reliant states, they have like.

more stable growth in both like as we have seen like economic growth as well when we take a look at the GDP like create growth as well.

Aaron Masliansky (14:37)
Why do you think that is? mean, do you think that it really is tied to trade or some of those States experiencing more rapid growth because of other factors like weather or retirement and people going to place? Like what are some of those States that have experienced the most growth is in a place like Florida.

Nadia Evangelou (14:54)
Of course there are more factors affecting. So when we take a look only in that factor, when we don't think about any other factors, yes, we see this relationship, but what exists out there in reality is that there are more factors. It's about population growth. What we see lately as well, for example, Florida had a home price increase about

more than 400, almost five times what it was like in 1994. So very, very strong. And we know that because it's the most popular place for many movers. There tracks like New Residences, inflanks of new residents is what creates this strong demand. And we continue to see, however, we also see some trends with more people moving to Midwest because we see that it's more affordable.

they continue this Midwestern areas to be more affordable compared to some places in Florida. Because of the new residents, now affordability is not so good as it used to be because these new residents have increased prices as well. So we see that some movers, they decide not to move to the South, but some of them they move to the Midwest as well.

Aaron Masliansky (16:13)
Yeah, I mean, I have experience with some of my own clients where I have people moving from more, more expensive States like Florida or California, or the Northeast that do come to Chicago because they, they feel like it's a bargain. And then on top of that, we have water, we have transportation, you know, there's a lot of good things that are, that are out there besides the cold weather. and not so good sports all the time, but there's a lot of factors I think that do bring people in.

And by the way, in regards to the report, I will link to it in the show notes. So for those who want to get more in depth on it, it will be available to you. I think that another thing too though is besides the tariffs that could potentially play into changes, mean the changes in immigration policy and just all different types of policies between states can make there to be a lot more competition between where people want to be, where they fall politically.

where it may work for them in terms of where the jobs go. Because if there is a big push to be able to, to bring more manufacturing back to the United States, that could be creating new opportunities. I mean, I look at a place like Arizona, I have, I know a bunch of people who've moved out there. And I know that there's a lot of industry being built there, a lot more chip factories, aviation industry going there. So do you see,

Do you hear about more talk about more industry being built? I know it's really early on with all these different types of things, but there have been some splashy news being put on about companies investing a lot more in a new industry or it might be data centers and things of that nature.

Nadia Evangelou (17:48)
As you mentioned, it's still very early to say that this is due to the things that are happening. So, what we see is that most job creation, for example, is in the Sunbelt, like the South. But and that's the main reason that all these years, like these states have attracted so many people. But what we also see, like there are many other states, in the Midwest, that

they also have like a good growth and with better affordability, they give like the good combination like for them like to move there because the reason that we see like many people are moving, you refer to the weather, we don't see anything yet about in the data that can be reflected in the data that they move due to weather like severe weather like events that they happen.

We don't see that and according to the public government data, it's only like 1 % of the movers that they move for that reason. So most of the time it's like job related, it's family related and of course housing related as well because they want to move to, they want to buy a house, they want to start building wealth. So they're looking for somewhere like to a place that they can afford to purchase a home over there.

Aaron Masliansky (18:59)
Well, that makes a lot of sense. know, another thing too is, you know, I happen to have the opportunity, I believe it was last year, to write an article with the Chicago Council on Global Affairs about the changes in cities since COVID and where you have these large office buildings that are kind of obsolete at this point that are being converted into residential uses. So you have some examples of that.

in Chicago. I know there's other examples throughout the country in Washington, DC and in New York and many other places because you have such an infrastructure already in a downtown area, but there may not be that need for office space. So are you continuing to see those types of migration patterns because of remote work changes in values of office buildings? mean, the numbers are staggering.

Nadia Evangelou (19:51)
What we see

from the data and it's very, very current thing is that finally we have a positive net absorption, office net absorption. So after so many years, have the positive absorption, which means like more spaces are released, but not vacated. And for example, New York, you refer to New York, what we see is that it has like more, significantly more net absorption now compared to pre-pandemic.

So it's about like, I think a very big, like it had like the opportunity to rebound and even like faster, like net absorption, office absorption in New York, for example. In Washington DC, it's a different like picture, for example. In Washington DC, what we see is that still we have a very low and very, we have negative net absorption for office space.

So I will say that it's a, when we talk about the national level, it cannot reflect the local market. And actually there are like three types, like the local markets are performing three different speeds. So some of them, they were able as New York to perform better than pre-pandemic for the office space. Some of them they are better than last year. And the other like side with Washington DC, for example, that unfortunately is underperforming compared to.

pre-pandemic at the last year as well. But the trend is that we see an improvement for the office space and this is very welcoming and very promising. And I think sometimes we have in our mind that people don't go to the office. And like now what we see is that people are back to the office and some of them like five days per week. So I say that's one of the reasons we see like office space like to start like rebounding.

Aaron Masliansky (21:38)
Yeah, I mean, that will be very helpful. I mean, I think it'll be also interesting to see if the federal government sells a lot of their buildings and then how that ends up affecting commercial real estate values and different areas like a Washington DC, which relies heavily on the federal government for employment and all the ancillary businesses like consulting that are located there. mean, you're in DC, right? Because NAR has an office there that helps with advocacy and everything, even though the

Nadia Evangelou (22:00)
Yes.

Aaron Masliansky (22:06)
national headquarters is here in Chicago, but there's obviously a good reason to be in DC. I mean, do you think that, I mean, have we even started to see what's actually going to be sold? What's going to be flushed out at this point? I mean, we're only in April, but

Nadia Evangelou (22:21)
They have announced actually about 400, I think, properties that they're like non-core. So that list went up, went up sometime, I don't know, it was about like a month ago, but unfortunately then went down. Now it's up again. So this is something that we're working on. we are, because it provides all the information about the address, about what specific building, like, so it's something that we're working on. And I think this is a very...

it will come sometime, I think, around the mid-year meetings that we have in June, beginning of June. So we have more analysis on that and how it can be affected, the state, for example. Because what we see, for example, many federal buildings are located in Texas as well. even though when I took a look at where federal buildings are located,

I was surprised to see like 18%, I think, of the government-owned buildings are located in Texas. And in the capital, the national capital area is about almost the same, like 90 % almost. So not very big difference between these areas. So yeah, so it was surprising for me as well. So I think that's great to continue with the analysis. And since now we have the list, and I think this list will be

Aaron Masliansky (23:23)
That's very surprising.

Nadia Evangelou (23:33)
be updated as they assess what buildings they have. I think they update this list, so it's very interesting to see and put it down and estimate what the impact can be.

Aaron Masliansky (23:43)
Yeah. And what is one of the things that is in your realm of what you work on international buyers, people who are buying in the United States or vice versa, U S buyers buying outside as well.

Nadia Evangelou (23:55)
So, yeah, we have that with our survey. So we do that later. So it's something that we track as well. We don't have yet anything that can show something that they are not buying or something, because I hear like stories out there. I hear like from our members as well. But unfortunately, we don't have any data yet to support like this idea. what we...

We see that, and we have seen like all these years, is that the limited inventory that we have, because we have more inventory in the market, but the limited inventory is one of the reasons that can make like foreigners like to come here, like to purchase a property as well, because it's more difficult when there are like less options. But now we have inventory, more inventory, about like 20 % like more inventory. So this can help a little bit. but we release like every year are like,

our survey that we have like very good data about like them, their foreign transactions, like real estate transactions, in the US.

Aaron Masliansky (24:53)
Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what happens because on a local level here, happen to be, you know, I work out of Evanston, which is where Northwestern University is. And I was, you know, I'm a member of the Rotary Club of Evanston. We had the mayor of Evanston come speak to our club yesterday and just talking about the different things. And one of the things that people at universities are very worried about

is the international students and their visas, whether or not they're going to be revoked. people, obviously for Northwestern, but there's many other universities around the country where people are afraid to go home because they're not sure if they're going to be able to come back into the United States to finish their next semester or whatever it may be. And I know a lot of times there are people who are buying real estate when they come to the United States.

because it's a good investment and they have a place to live while they're doing things in school. So I'd be interested to see how it affects university communities with these different changes in immigration law and whatnot. don't know if that's something that you guys are looking at studying or have studied in the past, but that would be, it would be interesting to know because that's a big marketplace for say condominiums.

Nadia Evangelou (26:02)
No, we don't track that. We take a look usually like who is buying a home and usually students are not buying homes. So for example, yeah, family members, yes, but I understand that already in the store. but we don't have anywhere like that we can define who is buying for that reason. So unfortunately we don't have that. But what I think we need to have in mind also is that the GDP,

Aaron Masliansky (26:11)
or their family members.

Nadia Evangelou (26:32)
When we compare with other countries, for example, even though the US economy is growing slower than the recent years, we see that the US continues to outpace other advanced economies in GDP growth. So compared to other developed nations, our economy has shown remarkable resilience driven mostly by strong consumer spending. For example, specifically in the US economy grew by 2.8 % in 2000.

2024 and based on the federal reserves like forecast is expected to grow by like one the updated forecast that they have like by 1.7 percent like in 2025. In contrast, the economies in the European countries are growing significantly slower but less than 1 percent. For example, Germany by just like 0 percent like in 2024, Italy by 0.7 percent and France by 1.1 percent. In Canada with 1.3 percent GDP growth in 2024.

And again, you mentioned that it's not just domestic investors like taking a notice, although foreign investments like slow down further in 2023 in the US, the US continues to remain the top destination for foreign investments worldwide, like recording the largest inward foreign direct investments, the FDIs that we call of all economies in 2023. This is the latest data that we have. even though

FDI flows in the US slow down in 2023. So the US continues to be the world's largest recipient of FDIs, followed by China. So the second was China. So I would say this is mostly to the large consumer base that we have here, the productive workforce and highly developed infrastructure and a business environment that promotes innovation. But there is currently so much uncertainty from the new tariffs and

the trade wars that we have. But when there's, I understand that when there are like constant news like about tariffs and shifting policies around like foreign ownership, this can affect slightly. But what we see and from the data that we have is that we still continue to be the strongest like a country in the global economy with most of the FDIs. And when we take a look at

FDIs in the real estate industry, get that foreign investments in real estate accounts, like about like 4 % of all FDIs. And even though it seems like a very small, but as a share, like it presents like billions of dollars like in capital flowing into the sector. And we may have like some quality like in the 90s, in late 90s, for example, nearly 2000, like real estate FDIs relatively high accounting for more than

5 % of total foreign investments. And following the 2008 financial crisis, had investment declined as global markets recovered from economic instability. And then a rebound began in 2014 with FDI and real estate increasing, us investors were looking for stable income generating assets in the US. And by 2023, 4 % low fall.

foreign direct investments were allocated to real estate, which marks a sustained return of international confidence in the sector.

Aaron Masliansky (29:50)
Yeah. I mean, if you look at it too, like if these tariffs do force countries to do more investment in the United States, that number could grow. So you could look at it like, I think a lot of times people look at uncertainty and look at it with like a doom and gloom, but really it could be the opposite. Like there could be a lot more investments here if you have more factory growth, if you have more need for workers and whatnot that creates

Nadia Evangelou (30:04)
I'll you guys.

Aaron Masliansky (30:17)
a more of a demand driver for housing. I mean, do you think that that's more likely of a scenario?

Nadia Evangelou (30:24)
There are both sides, I would say. And it's still early to assess. yeah, there are both sides every time. So there's this side and the other side. So I think we need to wait a little bit to see how this will play in the next month, think, or months.

Aaron Masliansky (30:40)
What do you think are the main things that if you're looking at real estate, let's say in Chicago land area, and then zooming out to the United States, what are the things that you want to be looking for to be able to kind of say where you can start to read the tea leaves and to think how things are going to play out?

Nadia Evangelou (30:58)
So I think the big themes like for 2025 are affordability, inventory, and economic resilience. So we have very good news about the inventory. I mentioned a little bit like that. We have about 20 % more homes for sale than what we had a year ago. However, we are still below the pre-pandemic level. So remember that we are getting off the record low figures that we had, like for example in 2021. Then looking to the other like,

Aaron Masliansky (31:16)
Right.

Nadia Evangelou (31:26)
factors that affect the housing market, will say that we are in an interesting spot right now. So mortgage rates are rising to above 7%. We'll combine that with elevated home prices and limited supply. And we've got like a real challenge for especially first time buyers. So one of the stats I've been watching closely and we produce it here like in, at NAR is that

Currently, just 21 % of listings are affordable to households earning $75,000 a year. So there is an improvement from a year earlier, but this is a stark drop from pre-pandemic levels. So in a balanced market, the number will be closer to 32 % or even higher. So we are still in a clear affordability crunch. Inventory is part of the problem, especially for entry-level homes.

We estimate that across the country, we are missing hundreds of thousands of affordable listings that will normally be on the market in a healthier supply environment. So we have this incoming inventory. We see the improvement, but we want to see more improvement. And that can be like with only a targeted approach when we build, have them, we add listings to the price points that

people can afford to buy. So as for Chicago metro area, this is a more affordable metro area than most of the areas across the country. So for sale inventory aligns, what we see from the data is that the for sale inventory aligns better with the local incomes. Back to our example, like we see that 25%, like the national level is 21%, 25 % in Chicago of the listings are at the price point that

Buyers earning $70,000 can afford to buy. So we see that we have more affordable listings available for sale. these are homes with a maximum price of $240,000. So there is an improvement specifically for Chicago. There is an improvement from a year ago. So this area is moving to the right direction, I will say. It's not adding only inventory.

but the inventory are the price points that people need in this area. So that's good. That makes Chicago metro area, because we take a look at the metro area, that it's more affordable than many other large metro areas. this also means that there are more opportunities for buyers over there.

Aaron Masliansky (34:02)
I think that the missing middle housing is part of the issue where you don't have as much ability to build like duplexes, townhouses, condos, and a lot, there's been a lot less construction.

in the Chicago land area since the 2008 financial crisis. It's been a lot more rentals that have been built. I mean, I assume that's what you're seeing around the country too.

Nadia Evangelou (34:26)
It is. there are opportunities in the condo market, for example. We see that condo prices, for example, are lower. They are experiencing some declines and this can also mean opportunities for the buyers. So I think there are some opportunities over there, especially for first time buyers. They can think about a condo as an option. I know that they want to go for the single family home.

I was a first time buyer, I wanted to buy a single family home, but when there are opportunities, so affordability, that there are more affordable homes, I think this can make them to go to the next stage. Buy a condo, for example, then start building wealth and then have some wealth to pay for your next home. Use it as for your down payment or other, so for the next purchase, for example.

Aaron Masliansky (34:56)
Sure.

Right. That's I think what we need to continue to see to give people that kind of stepping stone to be able to continue to build growth and wealth. But, for people who want to learn more about what you're doing and what National Association of Realtors is doing, where do you recommend they go?

Nadia Evangelou (35:34)
on our website and also to follow us on social media. think the social media, they are able to see the latest analysis that we put out of the research and news releases. So I think they should follow us on social media. And that's the best way to be informed with our latest research.

Aaron Masliansky (35:55)
Absolutely. And I'll have links to that in the show notes for people to go to. And I certainly do that. And I check several different resources every day because I think, you know, as a real estate professional, I need to know what I'm talking about and to know because people are always asking me and I've got to play the economist hat. But I think, you know, I am so grateful for people like you and for people at NAR and throughout the industry that do this research.

so we can speak intelligently and really be able to provide that type of service to the public. So thank you for that.

Nadia Evangelou (36:28)
Thank you. Thank you. ⁓

Aaron Masliansky (36:30)
You're welcome. And Nadia,

I appreciate you joining me on the show today. And thank you everybody for listening.

Nadia Evangelou (36:37)
Thank you. Thank